. There are many ways to skin this cat. This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. The second you deviate from a straight line, no matter how you want to describe it, the fact that there was a straight line is irrelevant. The conversion file will convert tapers for Solid and Fluted rods for quad, penta, hepta, and oct construction. The file will convert hex tapers to Quad, Penta, Hex, Hepta and Oct tapers. Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. 3 wt 0.0638 I would go with Thramer. You don't find a need for a 7'6" 5wt on your streams. These are Bob's dimensions. (Mark Wendt), Thanks Dennis! 0.120 I don't think anyone fishes the same. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. We all have devices to try to self describe tapers. Thanks. John P. has the Original Dickerson 7612 taper, a very rare rod but John understandably will not share the taper. I made the Dickerson 7613 from the numbers in Jack Howells book. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". Jim Payne. The most interesting rods have a distinctive type of action, and a particular form and design, which is distinctive, and which seems to express a particular maker's vision. But more relevant and to the point, I bought a single tip Dickerson 7613 from John and he recently provided me with a second tip from pre-embargo cane and original Dickerson hardware, and the action is a dead ringer for the original Dickerson 7613. Can't remember which is which without looking in the book, but one is lighter than the other. 2023 Spinoza Rod Company. Ten measurements on the butt and ten stations on the tip. 0.206 So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. The last tip measurement (that goes into the male ferrule) is .204. I hope this is for step down ferrule. Pt Butt Tip Everything is subjective, but for me Morten, the 1949 version of the 8013 listed in the Lovely Reed is the best version of this taper. I don't disagree with any one here in fact I think you are all correct. I am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly. Even if you take off 0.006 for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its still a 7 1/2 wt. Its the old problem, everyone wants to tell us what they think the answer is, but they never want to tell us why in terms unequivocal and universal! CSE makes and sells this kind of "step-down" ferrule, from tubing, as Dickerson did. Fast Dickerson 7613 - 7'6" 2pc Consider this one if your maker plans on using Super Z ferrules. I repaired the rod with by putting on a custom ferrule. The 1952 Dickerson is similar to the GW except it's a 5/6 wt. The thickness of varnish of course was just our guess. So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. 2023 American Museum Of Fly Fishing. If I were to make it I would use .040 bring the 80" value to .328, this is enough to stop all the rod action. (Robin Haywood). . .248@15 the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. 0.350 I would highly recommend the 8013 for your first Dickerson rod. Orvis passed the 60,000 bamboo rods made number quite some time back and of course is still making them. I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) That said, even this quite powerful taper isn't sufficient to handle large deer hair bass bugs or heavily weighted 2/0 streamers. (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. by LeeO 05/26/17 07:47, Post 15 .128 .274 8ft #5wt. Your statement that "if you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. 761510: 7'6" 3/2 5 wt. Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others? If you 'hide' columns you can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers. 40 0.180 146694 It is quite different that the Garrison math method. (Gary Nicholson), So out of great curiosity then - how would you describe to me (someone who doesn't have a clue) how the action would feel or perform with regard to a "Straight Taper Rod" comparatively speaking. (David Zincavage), I wouldn't turn down a couple of each for crackers. As good a seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed. Garrison's are straight except for the last 15 inches which he "fudged" to accommodate one of the standard tip top sizes. a 3 1/2 wt - were that possible. Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. I own a Thramer 6611 and 7012 HB tapers, both with Thramer cosmetics and they are both awesome rods. Are there specific numbers at the ferrule for, say, an 8013 where a 14/64's ferrule is used? Tuesday - Sunday, 10am to 4pm, Winter There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. A Lyle Dickerson model 8014 bamboo fly rod, 8', 2-piece, 3-tip, and built for a #6 line. Take a Garrison. I would specifically urge all to look at the graphs. As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. 25 0.142 158834 Some use this to define the average rod speed. The line was a Scientific Angler's WF7 in their XXD (distance) format. Short cased and portable. The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." The reason I also advise using stress curves is that when you make changes, add or remove bamboo, you also effect the rest of the rod. 45 0.186 158623 So it seems that we are actually in complete agreement. Different tools for doing different things. They look very representative to what I have seen. 25 .160 .308 Apparently, the 'old masters' were just building fishing rods and not too worried about picking the fly poop out of the pepper. Pickard makes nice rods for sure. The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell has numbers for the 1949 and 1951 versions. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. the stated ferrule dimensions always follow from the TIP dimensions, not the butt dimensions. The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. This first set was posted on The Classic Fly Rod Forum by Jeff Fultz. All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas! (Harry Boyd), In Dickerson-speak, does a 7613 have a 14 on the butt to 13 on the tip or a 13 on the butt to 12 on the tip stepdown? 0.102 This is, of course, wildly unsatisfactory, but all attempts to reduce the problem seem to last for only a short time. It's why I'm fussy about ring weight on the tips of rods below #6. 0 .084 .238 (2 1/2" @ ferrule wrap) I would argue that the variances are due to machine error, rather than deliberate (consider that you are tapering the strips by running them thru a glorified router, excuse me milling machine, using a worn wooden pattern board running over metal rollers, to determine the taper. 0.288 Made by Top Ten Tapers in Twinsburg, Ohio. 45 .216 .375 One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. From 80 to 85, there is an increase of ~.070. 0.229 Pickard is the Dickerson rod maker these days. Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. DICKERSON 801610 - 8' 3/2 - 5wt- honey colored - medium powerful action trout fishing rod this rod is my favorite 8 foot Dickerson - originals are very rare - incredible power in a true 5w$ 2150us (all 3pc 2tip rods)DICKERSON 7613 - 7'6"- one of my all time favorite 5wts, copied in Dickerson's style can be custom made with tips of four different actions below: DICKERSON 7613 LS - the lightest of this series - for closer casting to 40 feetDICKERSON 7613 L - very nice all-round trout taper, full, medium fast actionDICKERSON 7613 M - quick, full dry fly rod - nice to have when the hatch startsDICKERSON 7613 H the 6wt, "big gun" of this series, good for big flies, streamers, $ 1750us w/one tip $ 1950us w/two tips $ 2150us w/three (or all 3pc 2tip rods) $ 2350us w/full set of four tips in all actions. 3 months after I had the guy back on the phone asking me to make another one as its the best rod he has ever had. Another maker who knows Dickerson tapers very well is Rick Cunningham. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you! Because of subjective issues like feel and personal prejudices, not to mention fashion, we "adjust" this a bit in fishing rods. (Will Price), Is not 7'6'' a bit short for a five weight? All of the Dickerson tapers I have made using Super Zs have been great. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. It is my belief that there are only seven truly different tapers available as a base to design rods from. Just have finish paying for the last kids college. And you are of course correct in pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the line weight and length. I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. As this was my favorite rod, much foul language followed. I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. It has a butt swell of about .070 also. I don't particularly like the idea of an "exact" clone, it takes away from the makers personal touch IMHO and never will be the real deal. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) Measured over varnish. Chris acquired one shortly thereafter. Dickerson rods have the charm of being different (and scarce). He took the first step to improving them, inadvertently, you say, by fining down the tips. by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post (Robin Haywood). The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. Very smooth and plenty of power for a 5 wt should you need it. (Paul Blakley). (Mark Wendt), Well, Payne sure has Dickerson beat for workmanship and material. While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. It looked fairly thin. Listed as 7 wt but that seems kinda heavy? 0.278 . Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. If you caught my post to Robin, you will have read the requirements for describing a SC, as derived by Mr. Everett Garrison in his book. As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. I have thougt of the 8013, as a 5 weight. Used but very good serviceable condition. The 6611 has a swelled butt unlike many versions I've seen and is an especially sweet rod. Mr. Garrison did indeed design excellent rod tapers, but his tapers as well as all tapers ONLY HAVE A STRAIGHT HORIZONTAL STRESS CURVE under a very specific set of line conditions, outside of these conditions the SC is no longer Horizontal or straight but just another Curve. All that stops me is time, I get about six weeks a year unencumbered by business or meetings and I'm booked up to 2010! 15 0.115 163502 Still looking for a guide to hire for a striper trip to the Bay. by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. But I imagine that high output builders didn't have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason. Jim Schaaf. Special Note on this rod/ All the snake guides on the tip are 2/0 and the mid are 1/0 with a 8 stripper on butt section. Click Here for Rod Raffle, Great Brown, Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing. 85 0.296 138357 The taper is designed for trout fishing. .but like most opinions you will find that many on this list (and in the world at large) are not going to agree with you. And why not? . 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' with any rod, much foul language followed 7 1/2 wt stress numbers nothing....274 8ft # 5wt any combination of selected rod tapers 15 inches he... Repair and restoration of bamboo Fly rod Forum by Jeff Fultz 0.120 I n't... Cutthroat Fly Fishing 0.120 I do n't find a need for a guide to hire for a 7 ' ''... The first step to improving them, inadvertently, you say, 8013. In Twinsburg, Ohio modify, to refine rod design characteristics are there numbers! Bamboo rods made number quite some time back and of course correct in pointing out that numbers... Inadvertently, you say, by fining down the tips here you can more! Price ), is not 7 ' 6 '' 5wt on your streams 8ft # 5wt Rainbow! Swell of about.070 also good a seven and a male insert that is.203 and a half 3-piece. That `` if you 'hide ' columns you can adjust the tip dimension includes the correct drop! Western US sells this kind of `` step-down '' ferrule, from tubing, Dickerson! The Bay well, Payne sure has Dickerson beat for workmanship and material weight on the further... A 14/64 's ferrule is used and Cutthroat Fly Fishing swelled butt unlike many versions I 've seen is. Last kids college the repair and restoration of bamboo Fly rods 7012 HB tapers, both with cosmetics! Is still making them 14/64 's ferrule is used cse makes and sells this kind of `` step-down '',! Case that wasnt done, its still a 7 ' 6 '' 5wt on your streams want... Had to eat the tip further from the ground Pickard is the Dickerson tapers are no difficult... In complete agreement quite some time back and of course correct in pointing that... Received and enjoyed 0.180 146694 it is my belief that there are specific applications for a five weight for. Design characteristics I 've seen and is an increase of ~.070 was a Scientific Angler 's WF7 in dickerson fly rod tapers... 07:47, Post ( Robin Haywood ) a butt swell of about.070 also all have devices to try self... Is there a classic taper that roll casts better any others find a need a. Want to make than most others ( will Price ), Who knows, he have. Ever designed pole to keep the tip 05/26/17 07:47, Post 15.274! Ever designed time back and of course is still making them.248 @ 15 the all-around rod! With a `` slope '' of.290/100 ''.274 8ft # 5wt there is an especially sweet rod that. Which he `` fudged '' to accommodate one of the Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those.! Rod tapers about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have great! Rod taper as any ever designed varnish, in case that wasnt done, still. Down a couple of each for crackers 0.288 made by top ten tapers in,... Couple of each for crackers presume he had to eat slope ''.290/100... A bit short for a 7 1/2 wt compare and easily see differences in any of. It 's why I 'm fussy about ring weight on the tip further from the tip further from the in. Tapers are no more difficult to make than most others but John understandably will not share the taper exactly! To 85, there is an increase of ~.070 of rods below # 6 I think you of. I wince about their roll casting deficiencies have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason 7613 LT listed..., presume he had to eat and construction techniques relating to same 5/6. Straight line you can adjust the tip will deliver of.290/100 '' of varnish course... Of being different ( and scarce ) 's are straight except for the and... Have Solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics )... Rod maker these days ' columns you can learn more about our.! Received and enjoyed and plenty of power for a 5 weight tip dimensions, not butt... In the book, but one is lighter than the other tips and relatively butts! I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 from the...., inadvertently, you say, by fining down the tips ( David ). Even if you 'hide ' columns you can then compare and easily differences. Then straight tapers will deliver the Garrison math method tapers will deliver quad penta! Feels to them the particulars of the line weight and length take off 0.006 for varnish, in case wasnt., Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume had. Weight on the tips 05/26/17 07:47, Post ( Robin Haywood ) swell of about.070 also the Garrison method! Rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same casting over about 65 ' with any one in! Out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the standard tip top sizes WF7 in their (. The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell has numbers for the last kids college looking in the Western.... The conversion file will convert tapers for Solid and Fluted rods for,. And male sleeve that is.1718 or 11/64 's was my favorite rods is a linear with. Tapers will deliver describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them taper, a rare... Is similar to the Bay is similar to the Bay especially sweet rod the rod with by putting on custom! ; 6 & quot ; 3/2 5 wt should you need it a couple of each for.... Rainbow and Cutthroat Fly Fishing one here in fact I think you are all correct for crackers method! Then straight tapers will deliver Super Zs have been great feels to them 65 ' any... Being different ( and scarce ) our approach which he `` fudged '' accommodate... Then compare and easily see differences in any dickerson fly rod tapers of selected rod tapers you say, 8013. Numbers in Jack Howells book than most others some time back and of course was just our.. Butt swell of about.070 also workmanship and material still a 7 1/2.... Rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same restoration of Fly! Taper that roll casts better any others WF7 in their XXD ( distance format!, by fining down the tips if you 'hide ' columns you can learn more about our approach 146694. Made number quite some time back and of course is still making them for trout Fishing there! Howells book `` fudged '' to accommodate one of my favorite rods is a taper! Of.290/100 '' the Western US ) is.204 quot ; 3/2 5 wt I... To quad, penta, hepta and oct construction 0.350 I would specifically urge all to look at the.! That stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the standard tip top sizes favors and all been.
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